Meet Lisa Harrington, the ultimate portfolio career architect in the legal world. From top litigator to multiple General Counsel (GC) roles, a public company board member, and now the CEO seat, Lisa has mastered the art of continuous professional evolution. In this powerful conversation, she reveals the secret to her success: networking as a superpower. We dig into how to turn an ‘odd’ early job (like insurance defense) into a hidden advantage, how GCs confidently step into broader business and board roles, and practical strategies for managing a career inflection point. Whether you’re an aspiring GC or wondering what’s next, discover how to build your own unstoppable career infrastructure.
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Networking As A Superpower: Building A Portfolio Career In Law With Lisa Harrington
My guest has worn about every hat a modern legal leader can wear. Lisa Harrington has been a litigator, a public company GC several times over, a fractional and interim GC, a public company board member, and now is CEO of a manufacturing company. On top of that, she teaches executive presence and leadership at Wharton and is building a new from lawyer to leader the path to GC program at UC Irvine Law School.
In this conversation, Lisa and I dig into how she builds a true portfolio career moving from insurance defense to becoming the GC at Fandango followed by its sale to Comcast to global consumer brands and now into the CEO seat. We talk about networking as a superpower while litigation and insurance background can become a hidden advantage and how GCs can step confidently into broader business and board roles.
If you’re an aspiring GC or a sitting GC wondering what’s next, you’ll hear practical strategies for managing a career inflection point protecting your judgment in the boardroom and using technology, including AI to elevate rather than replace your impact. Let’s get into my conversation with Lisa Harrington.
Lisa, welcome to the show.
Thank you. Great to see you again.
It’s great to see you again as well. People say to me like, “You’ve got your hand in so many things.” I love talking to you because it seemed like I have my hand in almost nothing. You have got to be the busiest GC I know in terms of not only the GC work, but so much more. Usually, I like to start with going back in time but I want to start with you telling me your portfolio of things that keep you professionally challenged on a day-to-day basis now.
For a few years, I have been primarily a fractional GC and an interim GC. I’m doing various consulting work and also teaching. As you know, creating a course at UCI Law school. I teach at Wharton online and I serve on some boards. One non-profit, one educational and one public company. It’s a little bit of everything, which I enjoyed because it gives me, as you were saying, my hand in a lot of different things. It’s nice not to have to do the same thing every single day. It becomes drudgery but you get to move around a little bit and interact with different people all the time.
It sounds amazing. Not having to do the same thing every day, but how do you so that you’re not having to do ten things at the same time every day?
Portfolio Of Roles: Fractional GC, CEO, And Boards
I pretty much am doing ten things at the same time every day because the other thing I didn’t mention a moment ago is that for the last several months, I’ve also been CEO of a manufacturing company. I was general counsel.
There’s the CEO account.
There’s another hat I get to wear. It’s been fun. I was general counsel of their international company and for their North America entity. There was a change in the CEO and they said, “Can you do it?” I’m learning how to be a truly business operator and not just a GC. You’ve been one before yourself. You know that we are in fact business operators. You’re absolutely 100% a business person as a GC, but maybe not to this extent.
It’s great. It’s been a wonderful learning experience. It’s yet another hat that I’m wearing. To your question, it’s extremely difficult to manage everything. Part of it is many years of working and being a leader, which you and I both have for many years. You just figure it out over time. Some of it is, I’ve been trying to adopt more technology. I’m trying to streamline what I’m doing. Some of it is staying up late at night.
It’s extremely difficult to manage everything. A big part of it is experience—many years of working and leading. Over time, you just figure it out. Share on XNow, I’m going to want to go back in time. Were you always like this? Were you in every club, every sport or everything in school and this has just continued?
Pretty much. I was vice president in my sorority in college. As you know, this is how we met. I was on the board of the Association of Corporate Counsel. I was involved as a member for many years and then I was on the board for six years. I’m still a member. I’ve been a member of a lot of different legal organizations, either now or over the years, such as the Association of Media and Entertainment Counsel. There’s just a whole long list. I was on the board of Women Lawyers Association of Los Angeles. I like to volunteer. I like to get back. I’m on the board of USC Law School. Again, it’s doesn’t pay me anything but it’s nice to help your alma mater and give back to the students, too.
All those things that you listed off, what would you say is there a common thread other than Lisa Harrington?
Networking Is The Common Thread For A GC
I would say networking is the common thread. I do value connections and getting to know people. Getting to know someone just to get to know someone not because you need something from them or want something from them. Maybe someday you will need something or want something from them or maybe you can help them. Being able to know people and be helpful connects in with the general counsel role.
One of the ways of being a great general counsel is that if someone comes to you, whatever C-level business person comes to your office and says, “Lisa, I need you to help me figure out X, Y, and Z.” Better yet, they dump it on even say, “Figure this out,” knowing so many people in lots of different areas. You probably know someone who’s dealt with it or who’s specializes in whatever the thing is, or who knows a vendor who does the thing. Whatever it is. If you can reach out to your network to solve a problem and make your life easier and manage some of the chaos. To me, that’s one of the secrets to success of juggling, everything that you have to do is a GC.
For sure. You have deep roots here in Southern California.
I am 5th generation native born Southern California. I’m about as California as you can get. My kids are as well. I’m almost as far back native as you can get.
I don’t think I know anybody here who doesn’t know you.
I have lived here my whole life. I went to CLA for college. I went to USC for law school. I lived either in LA or Orange County my entire life. I have a pretty good network in those areas. Stick me in the middle of the country and it won’t have the same effect. Certainly in Southern California or maybe throughout California in different areas and San Diego and such. I know a lot of people. To me, it’s a compliment in a way that people want to keep in touch with you. Also, it’s a great way to be able to rely on your network when you need people.
When did you know you wanted to be a lawyer?
Early Career Decision And Education
I’m one of those weird people that decided in about 7th grade that it sounded like a good idea. I know not everyone does that. One of my daughter’s is still in college and doesn’t know what she wants to do and that’s totally okay. I went to some like parents meeting and they give a little speech on their career. They come to the middle school and they talk whatever. It was a woman, which at the time was a big deal because now there’s tons of women lawyers. At the time, there weren’t that many.
I remember her speaking and thinking, “I could do that. I have those skill sets.” Also, realizing that mouth was not my strong suit. That ruled out a number of things but I thought that I liked what she did. Originally, I plan honestly was to be like a DA or federal prosecutor or something like that. My plan changed but still, the path of law were stuck in my hat in an early age.
Did you go straight through from UCLA to USC?
I did.
What was that like from a culture perspective? Who do you root for?
I have season tickets to the USC football game. Much to my UCLA sorority sisters unhappiness, but that’s okay. Both my daughter has been to USC. I’m still on the board of USC Law School. To the point of network, I’ve learned a lot of the hype of, “The trojan network.” They push networking on you. You have to live and breathe it and it’s true. It pays off. I can’t tell you how thankful I am for so many of my law school friends and acquaintances and all the things people have done for me. I’ve done things for them. My loyalty lies there for those reasons but I still do love the fact that I went to UCLA.
What’s a law school memory that you have that you still draw upon now?
I do move court every year, I’m a move court judge, so it’s so nice. I did it like a weeks ago with my other law school classmate who I think you know. She and I were both judges. It was wonderful. We reflected that we have so many people from our law school class that we see all the time and that was a long time ago. We’re very happy about that.
You can’t help but to think when you were on the other side when you were doing the program as a student.
I’m on campus and in the law school building. A decent amount because I’m also a mentor. They have a mentorship program. I have two mentees. I was back there recently and I met with my mentees. I’m on campus decent amount. I have those memories come flooding back. Honestly, the memory that stands out the most unfortunate is that I went to law school during the LA riots at USC. That was not the best and it was during finals. It wasn’t the best memory of law school. I will say that, trauma bonds you together. Maybe that’s why some of my classmates and I are so close still all these years later. We had that in common like, “I can’t believe this is happening while we’re in law school finals situation.”
Was that first year finals?
It was second year. It wasn’t for steering.
I remember all the events. I went to law school in New York. There was always some big thing that happened right before finals that put everybody in front of the TV. One year, was like the first World Trade Center bombing. The next year was something else. I get it.
We’re resilient. We live through it.
Exactly. Tell me what you did upon graduation.
First Job: Insurance Defense And Its Hidden Advantage
Right out of law school, the economy was terrible just like now. Jobs were few and far between even for the people who graduated in the top of the class kind of like now because no one was hiring. I got a job at a law firm in Downtown Los Angeles mainly doing Insurance defense. Which has been a pro and a con. Number one, it’s a stereotype insurance defense but fast forward. My first in-house job was with an insurance company.
To this day, single job I’ve ever had people go, “You understand insurance. Here. Read this. Let us understand this. Help us with this. Do we need to make a claim? How do we restructure our insurance portfolios?” At the time, it was not my dream job. They were nice people. It’s just not what I wanted to do, but it’s ended up serving me well. You never know where your path might leave.
It’s so true. I know people who started this bankruptcy lawyers who didn’t want to do that, but it was during a downturn. Their whole career has benefited from that. There’s no better way to view a deal than what could ultimately go wrong. It’s like insurance. It’s not just a thing where it’s like, “I don’t do insurance.” I put it off the side. Having that understanding is a little bit of a superpower.
That combined with being a litigator, which is not the most common path of a general counsel. There are plenty of general councils who did come up through litigation. I would say the vast majority didn’t not, but I truly think that’s also a bit of a superpower. Other people I know who came up through the litigation side, they agree with that. It gets you to understand risk. You’re understanding and what you said about bankruptcy, you know that downside. You see where this can go. You don’t want to be like Chicken Little, “The sky is falling.” You also have a little bit more of a crystal ball that way.
There are plenty of general counsels who came up through litigation. The vast majority didn’t, but it’s a bit of a superpower. It helps you truly understand risk. Share on XYou can see around the corners and four steps ahead of like, “I’ve seen this happen before and it didn’t go well. Here’s how it went or this is a little more risky than you think it is. Here’s why.” Maybe it’s not. “You’re worrying about nothing. I’ve dealt with this before. It’s not big deal. Don’t even worry.” It’s not like we’re always, “Don’t do that. It’s too risky.” Sometimes I been in the situation of saying, “No, you’re stressed about that. Nothing’s going to happen. It’s going to be fine.” They’re like, “I don’t know,” like a CEO or something. It’s a good strength.
For sure. Did you go to another firm or did you go in the house from there?
I went to another firm in Century City for a few years doing a whole lot of different things. I did a lot of environmental coverage litigation, which was interesting from the environmental aspect of it. I moved to a firm and downtown LA. One of the clients about firm was Life Insurance Company of America. Provident is what it used to be called. It was a merger of different company and it’s changed names a number of times along the way. I knew they were opening up an office Glendale, and they’d never had any lawyers West of the Mississippi.
They needed somebody to be the GC of everything. Everything in what they call the West, but it was a lot. It was bigger than just the West. It was West Mississippi. They tried to find folks to transfer out and because of the cost of living to provincials, there was an office outside of Tennessee and there was another one in Maine. It’s lovely places but very different cost of living and school systems. Nobody wants to do it, so I said, “I would do it.” They said. That’s how I went in-house. I just raised my hand and they said yes. It was the typical path. You go in-house for a client.
Is that when you joined ACC?
Absolutely. That was in the fall of 2000. I joined ACC right away and that’s maybe around when I met you.
A great organization for any in-house lawyer to join. What things were you doing as a young lawyer to network before that? What role did that play in building your network as a GC?
I’m not sure I spent as much time on networking prior to when I went in-house as maybe I should. I was seven years out. You work a ton of hours when you’re more junior. I certainly didn’t do zero and I was president in my HOA or something, too. I have many thing going on. I was doing this or that. I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that I was doing to work on my network. Once I went down a different path and went in-house, I knew that I was going to need to build a different group.
I had this group of law firm people that I gotten to know well and the vendors that we use and all of that but this is a different world. All of a sudden, you’re a business person and you’re not just a lawyer. You need a whole big network of other people who are just like you with the same concerns, thoughts, problems and needs and everything else to help you out. That’s when I joined ACC and it did all those things for me.
Take me through your path from there to your next job.
Transition To Digital Media: Joining Fandango
I did in-house work in insurance companies for about 5 or 6 years. During that time is when I had my two kids. At some point, too much travel and too tiny little kids was not super conducive. I have to go back to the networking piece. I was chatting with someone who was like, “I work at this cool company on the West side and I need somebody to come work with me. Are you interested? It’s cool that you have little kids. We’re flexible.” I’m like, “That sounds great.”
That’s how I started my job at Fandango. It’s a different change. I left insurance and went to digital media, eCommerce, ticketing technology and a whole lot of different things. Now everybody’s heard of it but back then, they’ve only been around about 5 or 6 years. People heard of it but it wasn’t what it was then. It was a mid-later stage startup, but I was like employee 75 or something. I have lots of great friends from those early days because we grew and build the company significantly and then we sold the company to Comcast.
You were there through the sale?
Yes, I had a very big role.
Tells us about that.
It was something I was going to mention in a general sense of like one of the big differences between being an in-house lawyer and being a general counsel. When you’re a general counsel, you are part of the company. If there’s a problem that the company faces, it’s your problem too. It’s not like, “I’m the lawyer.” This is a problem. We have to solve it. Mind you, this is in 2006-2007. Not very much was digital back then, which makes it sound like dinosaurs roam the Earth. There weren’t much in the way of cell phones. It was different back then but anyways.
We were trying to sell the company to Comcast and we had physical boxes places. There were things in people’s desk drawers. I’m sitting here trying to put together diligence materials for a huge company like Comcast and in a panic. They’re going, “We think maybe it’s in Bob’s office.” I would like wear jeans and sneakers and crawl around on the floor. Don’t think that being a GC is always glamorous because it’s certainly is not. You do what you have to do.
No doubt. Again, we see how technology has changed so many things. That was in the Blackberry era but now yet the iPhone era.
When I was working at Fandango, they have an app. I was part of the team that decided, “Are we going to make an app? If so, what’s it going to do? How do we do it? How do we figure it out from a payment processing and data security standpoint?” Apps were literally brand new. That’s when people used to have the flashlight app and it was a big deal. I know that sounds crazy to anyone young who will read this. This wasn’t so long ago or at least I like to think it was in. So much has changed so quickly.
Apps were brand new. Nobody really had them yet. From both a business and legal perspective, it was fascinating. We were constantly in rooms figuring out what to do and how to do it: be first to market, wait, or follow. It was an exciting, uncharted… Share on XFlash forward in ten years, there’s people that are young now, they’re going to be going, “I was there when AI became a thing.” It’s going to sound like, “Really? Wow. So long ago.” Nobody had a mobile device just certain people had them. Nobody had apps and all these things were new. From a business perspective and a legal perspective, it’s fascinating. We had to sit there in rooms and figure out what we’re going to do and how we’re going to do this. Are we going to be first to market? Are we going to wait for other people to go? We’re going to follow them. How are we going to do all this? It was a fun and interesting time.
It’s interesting like being in Southern California doing that when a lot of the activities up in Northern California. Did you do anything to build a network with folks up there so you’ve got some data points and how other people are doing things?
It was seen as an entertainment company. It’s LA. Right on the boarder, West LA in Santa Monica is where the office is were at the time. That’s why. Initially before we sold the company to Comcast, it was funded by some VCs, but also some of the major theater chains. It was more of an entertainment platform initially but it was a tech company. I always try to put it on my resume or LinkedIn or whatever. I was trying to make that clear like, “It’s super cool. It’s movies,” but it was a tech company.
It was both the first entertainment company and the first tech company you worked at. You were in Insurance before that. What stuck from that period of time? What other things have you done in those two sectors?
Comcast eventually bought NBC Universal, so it became even more media heavy than it was.
You stayed on after the sale?
Yes, long after. I was there about 9 to 10 years. We did move up a couple floors at one point but the same building the whole time. More or less, the same chair. While the company changed drastically from a cute little startup that had neon-colored walls to Corporate America. It was a fascinating change. Again, back to the networking concept. With the business team, everybody was great. They didn’t treat me like a lawyer, which I was so thankful for. I was just truly one of the team and I’m still friends with a lot of those people. Some of them I talked to pretty regularly. It was such a nice experience having people that value each other’s input.
It didn’t matter if you were the CFO or the head of business or the lawyer. It’s just like, “We’ve got this problem solved building a mobile app or whatever the thing was. Let’s figure it out together.” In my head, that’s always a great model for a wonderful business team. It is not that typical. I didn’t know because I had wonderful business team like the insurance company. We build everything from scratch on our own and then I came here. I had a lot of years of great experiences with close knit business teams that respected one another so much and appreciated about what legal does.
That makes it so much different. If they understand what you do or frankly, even if they don’t. If they have respect for what you do and what you add to the process, it makes sure your job so much easier. You make a lot of nice friends that way, too. To answer your question, I’ve been in entertainment media, technology and then eventually consumer products. It’s what ran through the rest of my career. I love entertainment and media. It’s been fascinating. The public board that I’m still on is A-Rod, the baseball player.
That’s an investment company as well, but it focuses on the technology and media space. It’s an area that I haven’t totally gotten away from. I was general counsel of Asics for a while as well. While it’s technically consumer products, it’s also advertising, marketing, and media because that’s what you have to do in a big global company that’s trying to sell things to people.
Where there any times during like Fandango or the transition where you felt like maybe you were in over your head and then you came out the other side?
Absolutely. Every time you take a new job, you’re in over your head. I worked for a small startup. It was an airline. I didn’t know anything about an airline, but I knew a lot about being a good general counsel. Thankfully, I was able to draw on either outside counsel or friends or whatever that brought me up to speed on what I needed to know. It does make you feel confident about your core skills. As you know, being a good GC, you have to be an excellent business person, but you also have to know a lot of things.
Maybe only this much, but you have to be able to tackle pretty much every problem on the planet or at least, not panic if someone brings something new to you. That’s kind of secret skill. There’s positions I’ve taken where I’m like, “This is a lot. I don’t know how to do this or I’ve never done this before.” If you’ve gotten to the point where you’ve done a few of these jobs before, you do have the spills. You have to take a deep breath and go, “Maybe I don’t know this industry but I have these skills. I can do this. It’ll be fine.” It could be a little bumpy up first, but you figure things out. It’s that core skill set that makes the difference.
Core Skill Set: Issue Spotting As A Business Person
A lot of people, especially non-litigators, will say like, “Law school didn’t prepare me for being a lawyer.” It did because so much is being able to spot issues. You’re giving a fact pattern. You got a spot the issues and then you got to bring solutions to those issues. The same thing on the bar exam like the multiple choice or whatever.
I don’t know if they still do it but the California performance section of the bar exam, what I experienced on a daily basis is emails and stuff of a folder full of stuff. Everything’s coming in and nobody brings it to you as you said earlier, “I’ve got this problem, X, Y, and Z.” They’re like, “No, here’s a bunch of stuff.” They don’t even ask you, “Is there a problem?” You got to find the problem, and then you’ve got to bring the solutions.
It’s up to you. You’ll be sitting in a meeting and everybody will be acting like everything is great. You’re the one saying, “Wait a minute, guys. There is a problem.” To your issues spotting point, you have to be the one in the room thinking about things that they’re not necessarily thinking about. Maybe you discuss it and they go, “That’s great, General Counsel. We’ve heard you and we don’t care. That’s not a risk that we care about.” You go, “Okay, great.” At least it was said and was thought about. They would never have thought about.
It’s a great point and something we’ve never talked about with any of the guests on the show. I’m sure it’s something. everybody’s experience of like, you’re in the room. Something’s being discussed and you’re not sure it’s okay or not okay. You start to think like, “If I don’t say anything, is that tacit approval?”
What are some techniques that you’ve done along the way that you find effective? In terms of balancing that you don’t want to be stopping everything in its tracks. On the other hand, you don’t want people to think it’s like legal signed off on this before you’ve had a chance to understand and dig in.
It depends on what meeting it is, who’s there, and what kind of relationship you have with the senior executive team. If you’re in a board meeting at the time versus just a casual view meeting with some C-suit people. It’s a situational answer to that. Sometimes. I’ll be like, “I agree with everything you said. It’s not about plan but have we thought about maybe doing X instead except of Y? Would that fundamentally change what you want to do? It would be better from a legal or regulatory or compliance standpoint or whatever the thing is.”
Sometimes, you suggest a slight course correction. A lot of times, they’re like, “It’s not all that different. If it’s less risk, let’s do it.” However, if it’s basically like, “You guys have been preparing this thing for six months. You never told me about it. It’s a complete disaster.” I have had that and I think everyone has. You don’t necessarily want to blurt that out in the middle of a meeting and throw everybody under the bus like, “You screwed this up.” That might be one of those times and it depends on who’s pushing it forward.
If it’s the head of VD who thinks they have this great idea and they’re developing this thing. Maybe you go over to whoever it is after the meeting and go, “I didn’t want to undermine you during the meeting. I didn’t even want to bring it up because anyone want to make you look bad, but you’re well face on this. Next time can you bring me in at the beginning of these projects? It’s so far down the line. It’s going to be an ordeal time, money whatever, to fix this. Frankly, legal is going to get blamed for slowing down the process.”
It’s like, “No. If you would have told me about this months ago, I could have worked with you and partnered with you. We could have been sitting here going, ‘Great. We’re launching.’” You have to educate them a bit. Again, it goes back to the relationship. If it’s the CEO, a lot of times, they’ll just be like, “Lawyer, we don’t care what you say.” That’s fine.
It varies if you’re asked in the meeting versus your wondering if you should speak up. I always think later is better, but not never. Especially if it’s brainstorming. You don’t want to cut off the flow. Before the meeting ends, you do want to say, “We’re going to take a look at that issue to make sure.” If you’re suspecting there could be a problem, you at least want to put a placeholder down and then have the conversations offline.
I’ve done that, too. I just go, “I’m thinking about some legal issues in my head. I don’t know if I’m right or not. Let me take you back. Let me think on it. Please don’t make any final decisions in the next 24 hours or whatever it may be. I’ll get back to you.” Sometime the answer is, “It was fine. I just needed a moment to myself. I didn’t want to think on the flying, get it wrong.” It’s okay to say I don’t know.
You’re hearing about something first time and you’re not hearing about it in a whole picture. You’ve got a piece of puzzle. You have no idea what the whole picture looks like. You’re not going to be able to opine on that. You’ve got to have somebody put it in context and the meeting is usually not the right place to have somebody fill you in on the whole context. You put a placeholder down and then you do your work.
Ideally, you have a team, which you don’t always. Sometimes, it would be great if you have a team where you could say, “This just came up in a meeting. Please look into this.” You don’t always so it might fall on you, and then you have to drop everything and prioritize this urgent item, which happens as well.
Ideally, you have a team—though you don’t always. It would be great to say, ‘This just came up in a meeting, please look into it.’ But when you don’t have that support, it falls on you, and you have to drop everything and prioritize the urgent item. Share on XI want to flip now because you’re not just the GC in these situations but you’re a board member. You’re a CEO. From that side, what is it look like to you when lawyers do things one way versus another in terms of what we’re talking about?
I’ve been on several boards be it public or private and being a C-suite person sitting in board meetings. If I’m coming from that perspective, I am the lawyer.
If there’s other lawyers in the room, you’ve probably brought them in and you know what they’re going to say.
They are there at my invitation because they are my primary outside counsel, but still. There’s different styles. When you’re the board member and you’re sitting there in a meeting. There was a very large law firm who was advising us in a public company board that I’m on and I was like, “Really? You’re a partner in one of the biggest law firms. Are you absolutely kidding me? You need to be telling everybody.” It is not my role to lecture this group or explain to them about X, Y, and Z issue. Why have you not brought this up?”
At some point, frankly, it’s one of the highest fees firms that are out there and this is the polling to me. You need to do better. Generally speaking, I would say, they’re generally pretty knowledgeable and respectful. I do think if there’s no GC and the outside councils are running the show, which does help in a lot as well. As you all know, there’s a big difference between the type of advice about law firms give and in-house people give.
There’s been times it’s been hard for me like from a board perspective because I’m like, “That’s not the right legal advice. I know my role sitting right here isn’t to be a lawyer, but that’s law firm advice. That’s not always the right answer.” There’s somebody like us that has to translate it from law firm speak. It filters through us and then it goes to business people or being a business person. It’s an interesting perspective of how you navigate those business and legal issues and keep things running.
I bet it is. When you identify like over hedging that must that must drive you nuts. Lawyers tend to do that a lot. Once you’ve been in-house, you do it a lot less because you won’t get away with it. To be in that context and hear it, it must sound different.
Honestly, sometimes I have to look down so I don’t smirk or something. I don’t want to be inappropriate, like, “Really Come on. Take a position and stick with it. Give us business advice.” I want to hear your legal advice, but I also want to hear your business. It could be A, B, or C but what’s your answer and why?”
What would you do? Not, what are you guaranteeing, is the right answer. Everybody knows there’s no guarantee.
That’s what all of us as GCs are good at, of saying, “That’s great law firm. Thank you for giving me a giant memo with 26 different options, but I need to know which one you think is the best and why. I may or may not agree with you but I need you to at least be behind one or two of these things that you gave me an option.”
I like that the memo had 26 options at least. Not just 26 things to worry about in random order.
That a first year wrote or something and you’re like, “You’re killing me.” I have lectured law firms about that in the past of like, “I don’t want your 26-item memo. I want in the very front, ‘Here is the answer.’” It’s like in law school. It’s, “Here is the short answer to the question,” and then you analyze it down below. I want the executive summary up top.
No law firm partners reading would ever make that mistake because they’re already savvy enough to tune in and listen to what GCs think.
Let’s hope that they tell their junior associates.
The Future Of Law Firms And AI: The Billable Hour
We could we could go off in that topic for a bit. What do you think the future of law firms, law practice is in this new age of AI? That’s a big question.
It’s something about a lot. I wouldn’t want to be in law school and I wouldn’t want to be like a first through fourth year now.
Is that right? I tell everybody younger than me when they’re complaining about the economy or whatever. I’m like, “Switch places with you in a second.”
That’s interesting.
It’s a great time to be alive. It’s great time to be young. There’s so many opinions.
Those years spent building a practice and gaining deep experience—whether as a GC or a law firm partner—develop an instinct that AI will never have. Share on XFrom a learning experience perspective, absolutely. So much has changing every single day. Back to our earlier conversation about mobile devices and stuff. For us, that was so exciting. Things were growing and changing. We didn’t know where it was going when we were learning but those tools didn’t have the ability to potentially do away with our billable hours or whatever, as a junior law firm person. There’s a push-pull there. The law firm’s billable hour model is always been a challenge.
You may think that clients are pushing their law firms to use responsibly and in a confidential way like enterprise versions of AI. There’s a lot of things that maybe like a giant law firm might get to a paralegal in the past and they build a law for it that maybe AI could do the lion share of it. That’ll be interesting to see how those economics change over time.
I think about like a couple of things probably for the first twenty years in my career that were always coming. It’s like the killer bees are always coming or soccer is going to be the biggest spectator sport in America. It’s always right around the corner but never gets here. Those two things were video conferencing. Firms would spend a lot of money on expensive video conference equipment that nobody else use. The other one was like the end of the billable hour. It’s always like, “It’s going to end of the billboard.” Now, COVID came and video conferencing became Zoom. It happened in two weeks.
It changed overnight. Not everybody is sitting in a conference room with a camera on and you can never hear very well.
First in the companies and then eventually the law firms. There were some early days where everybody’s on video except the law firm. There’s some phone number then they figure out. It was like flipping a switch. AI has the potential to finally flip the switch on the death of the billable hours. It doesn’t mean people don’t get together in person in post-Zoom era, but it’s different. It’ll never go back to being the way it was. They’ll still be billable hours but there’s going to be some inflection point here where it becomes the exception rather than the rule.
That’s true and they might have to think about for junior or mid-level work, no more flat fees for those portions of the work perhaps. It’s because you’re combining that in with AI. I do think that a senior partner has a lot of similarities to a GC. You understand so much and the nuances. You can figure things out this on your own and you can issues spud. You might only build an hour, but that same exact thing probably would have taken a junior person ten hours just because you have all that knowledge and that experience.
Those years of growing a practice and getting that knowledge, whether you’re a GC or a partner in a law firm. That’s something that AI just is never going to have that instinct. Maybe. At least at this point, the judgment and instinct and the, “I’ve done this ten times before,” things like that more senior people have that’s where I wouldn’t mind paying more per hour at a law firm for that kind of advice versus something that’s a routine that could be more commoditized.
It could very well and it will change. For now, the superpower is an experienced attorney using AI. This is accelerant. Will it matter if you’re experienced? I don’t know what’s going to happen next. For now, I think that’s the right combination. Tell me what are the projects you’re working in now that are most exciting and new?
As I said, I have started working as CEO of a manufacturing company. Which I will say for any GC who wants to get into a CEO role, it’s not dramatically different. In the sense that you have to understand the big picture issues. I would say I’m thankful that I’ve worked for two global manufacturing companies that are public as general counsel. One was Asics that I mentioned and the other one is a dietary supplement company.
Thankfully, I understand things about making it in this company and then sticking it on a container ship. It has to come through customs and then it goes here and there. At least all the general concepts of a lot of this, I get. We’ve had warehouses. Things like that have existed for me. At least I understand the concepts. Thank goodness. It’s a little daunting to not think about everything in lawyer terms. On the plus side, don’t under estimate how good of a business person you are as a general counsel because I’ve been doing this for a couple of months now.
I would say most the time, I’m like, “I have done this. I’ve done that. This is no problem.” It’s surprising, I guess, but pleasantly surprising that the legal department often gets tossed all the stuff that no one wants to do in every company I’ve ever worked for. What that does is whether you want to or not, it gives you a lot of good skills. It’s like, “Everybody dump this on me. Now, what do I do?” You have to figure it out. It’s frankly not legal most the time.
Shifting over to this CEO role. It’s all sorts of things that I’m like, “What do I do with this?” Then I’m like, “I have done this before.” Maybe not exactly precisely like this. There’s a lot of overlap at least in the skill set piece of it. I’m thankful that weirdly enough people have thrown all kinds of stupid stuff out at me over the years that are forced me to learn things that aren’t legal. They’re about like, how to do business and how to run a business. That is a wonderful transferable skill for anybody.
You’ve learned that everything is figure out-able.
It is. Again, back to the network concept. If you don’t know, you probably have a friend who knows. Whether it’s a GC job or a CEO job or whatever, once you get to a certain point and you have a great network. You just feel like, “I have this issue. Joe, what do I do?” You could say, “I don’t know, but I could call my friend Susan. Whatever it is.” That helps immensely no matter what your role is because you never want to feel like you’re out on an island. If you’ve done a good job of your own learning but also networking. You’re never going to feel like you’re just stuck there by yourself and spinning because you’re always going to have people you can rely on.
That’s awesome. You’ve been for a while now on the academic side teaching an executive presence course at Wharton?
I teach two classes that Wharton. I teach executive presence and leadership development. That’s one of them.
To business students?
No, to people like us.
It’s like getting executive.
It’s mid-level management on up to C-levels. It’s business people. I also teach public company corporate governance. That’s also at Wharton. That keeps me fresh at what’s going on at public companies and then also for companies that are thinking about going public.
Developing The Next Generation: UCI Law Program
I bet it does. You have a fledgling project. Do you want to talk about that?
It’s one that about as well. We have been announcing it. I have been working with the dean of UCI Law School in trying to build a program on basically how to become a GC and how to be a great GC. We’re calling it from Lawyer to Leader: The Path to the GCC.
Who will the students be in that in that course?
Somewhat similar to what I’m doing with these other courses I’m teaching. We’re targeting people who are 3 to 7-year lawyers, either in law firms or ones that are currently in-house. If you’re in a law firm and you’re thinking, “Maybe I want to go in-house for a client. Maybe partnership isn’t for me. Maybe I want to go in-house.” We’re going to teach you about what skills are and a lot of the things that we’ve been talking about.
It’s how you think about things differently and how to be a business person. All the soft skills that you need in order to be successful. There’s that. There’s also the people who are already in-house and maybe they have a council level position, but they want to figure out, “What do I need to do to climb the ladder if someday I want to be a deputy GC or GC like an actual management level role?” It’s very different than being an individual contributor, more junior level in-house person.
That’s wonderful. Where can people go to find out more about that program? Where can they go to find out more about all the projects that you’re working on?
I do have a website. It’s HarringtonConsulting.org. That talks about my consulting and my fractional GC work that I have, my board work and my teaching as well and my various endeavors and such. I’d love for everybody to check that out if they’re interested. As far as the UCI course, we just launched the website. There’s an article that was published in the Orange County Business Journal that I have promoted on LinkedIn.
You can look at my LinkedIn or Dean Parrish, who is the law school dean. He posted about it as well. We have a link to the website as well. It’s not a live link in the sense of you can’t sign up just yet, but it does tell you more about the course. Honestly, the article is a great summary of everything that everyone’s doing. We have a bunch of experienced wonderful GCs who are participating in drafting materials and teaching the courses. Pretty much all my friends that have agreed to participate and people that I’m sure that you know all of them, Joe. They’re great people to learn from. It’s going to be a fun experience. We start the actual teaching portion at the end of August 2026 to coincide with the school year.
That sounds like it’s going to be great. Lisa, it’s been such a pleasure. I’m going to dub you the energizer bunny. I’m just so amazed by all the things that you do. What a nice portfolio of work, contributing to the next generation, volunteer-ship, leadership, and now CEO-ship. It’s incredible. I can’t wait to see what’s next for you.
I appreciate that. It was great to see you again and catch up.
Likewise.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks, Lisa.
—
Thank you for reading my conversation with Lisa Harrington, GC, CEO, board member and educator. Here are my three big takeaways for aspiring and current GCs. Number one, your odd early jobs can become superpowers. Lisa’s time and insurance defense in litigation wasn’t her dream work at the time. It gave her a deep understanding of risk, insurance and downside scenarios skills she draws on to this day is a GC, board member and CEO. Don’t dismiss the work you’re doing now. Figure out how to turn it into an asset.
Number two, networking is not transactional. Its infrastructure. Lisa’s entire career from going in-house to Fandango and the Comcast sale, to board rules and CEO have been powered by long-term genuine relationships. She builds connections before she needs them and then leans on that network to solve problems, open doors and share opportunities. For GCs, a strong network isn’t optional. It’s part of the job.
Number three, great GCs are business leaders first and lawyer second. Whether she’s sitting in the GC chair in the boardroom or in the COC, Lisa is applying the same core skills, issue spotting, judgment and business decision making. She uses legal training as a foundation but she’s constantly asking what’s the right business answer. That mindset is exactly what her new program at UC Irvine is designed to teach.
If you’re on the path to the GC role or thinking about what comes after it, Lisa’s career is a great reminder that everything is learnable or figure out able as they say. Your network, plus your judgment will carry you along way. Thanks for reading. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, rate and share it with another lawyer who’s serious about growing into a true business leader. As always, feel free to reach out to me and connect on LinkedIn.
Important Links
- Lisa Harrington on LinkedIn
- Harrington Consulting
- Association of Corporate Counsel
- Association of Media and Entertainment Counsel
- Women Lawyers Association of Los Angeles
- Austen Parrish on LinkedIn
- Joseph Schohl on Linkedin
About Lisa Harrington
Lisa Hatton Harrington was Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary for Viant Technology, a publicly traded advertising software company, and was General Counsel, Corporate Secretary and a Board Director for ChromaDex, a publicly traded bioscience and consumer products company. Prior to that, Ms. Harrington was Of Counsel at the global law firm Cooley LLP acting as outside general counsel for public companies as well as start-ups. She has held General Counsel positions at ASICS, Surf Airlines, NBCUniversal/Comcast’s digital division (including Fandango), and Unum Group’s Western division. Ms. Harrington is an experienced chief compliance officer and chief privacy officer, and has also been head of enterprise risk management, internal audit, ESG, and procurement. Ms. Harrington received her B.A. from UCLA and her J.D. from USC Gould School of Law.
Ms. Harrington is an independent board director for publicly traded Slam Corporation and recently for publicly traded Iron Horse Acquisitions. She also serves on the board of the USC Gould School of Law Alumni Association, was acting assistant corporate secretary for a public healthcare company, is a fractional general counsel for several private companies and a non-profit. She is a lecturer on Corporate Governance and on Executive Presence and Leadership for the Wharton School of Business executive education program, and she is an adjunct professor at UCI Law School on corporate legal practice.
She previously served as executive board director and secretary of the Association of Corporate Counsel, and she served on the Association of Media and Entertainment Counsel board, the Women Lawyers Association of Los Angeles board, and was president of her HOA board. Ms. Harrington was a 2021 Orange County Business Journal Public Company General Counsel of the Year Award Nominee, and a 2022 Los Angeles Times General Counsel Leadership Award Nominee.